An Interview with Award-Winning Filmmaker, Writer, and Actress Crystal Kwok

By Mahnoor Khan

CEAS interviewed Crystal Kwok following the screening of her film, Blurring the Color Line, at the third Geneva Forum on East Asia.

One of the highlights at this year’s Geneva Forum on East Asia organized by the Contemporary East Asian Studies Initiative (CEAS) was a screening of the feature film Blurring the Color Line directed by award-winning actress, writer, talk show host, university lecturer, and filmmaker Crystal Kwok. The film follows Kwok as she uncovers the history of her grandmother’s family, who were Chinese immigrants to the United States and grocery store owners in a predominantly African American neighborhood in Augusta, Georgia at the height of Jim Crow. The film offers rich, evocative, and highly personal insights into relations between the Chinese and African American communities, which were to a great extent shaped by the respective positions each group occupied in the racial hierarchy during that deeply fraught time.

I interviewed Crystal Kwok via email after the film screening. Below, she shares her answers to my questions about the film and on relations between the Chinese American and Black American communities in the United States today.

1. Your grandmother Pearl’s story takes place in Augusta, Georgia, during the infamous Jim Crow era. Your film addresses the racial divide between the African Americans and the Chinese immigrants who lived together as neighbors during that difficult time. Fast forward to 2023, how would you say relations between the African American and Chinese American communities have evolved and changed since then? Does there exist a recognition of bonds of solidarity or, at least, affinity between African Americans and Chinese Americans today?

CK: Unfortunately I don’t find much has changed. The two communities continue to be separated and if anything, tensions have risen. Back during my grandmother’s era, there were some friendly bonds that were built off the fact that they needed each other to survive. Today, there seems to be more hostility and negative perception against each other. I have a friend who has been dating her African American boyfriend for over 16 years and she still has not introduced him to her traditional Chinese parents.

2. Today in the US, Chinese kids are held to be a ‘model minority’ who excel in school and come from hardworking, law-abiding families, while the perception of African American kids unfortunately remains rooted in racist stereotypes. Statistics tell us that Black youth in America are more likely to be handled forcibly by the police than any other demographic, and more likely to be given harsher prison sentences for petty crimes than White youth. Do you think these stereotypes – of Chinese kids as exceptionally bright, talented, and law-abiding individuals, and of Black youth as ‘dangerous’, ‘troublemakers’, and ‘less educated’ – make it easier or harder for people from these two communities to bridge the racial divide?

CK: These statistics are myths that are perpetuated by media representation. While stereotypes are formed from some basis of truths, we need to do the work to get to know people as people. While we might be affected by negative experiences, we have to make an effort to be conscious of discriminatory views and to question why oppressed communities like African Americans are so deprived of education and equality. I know many Asian Americans who struggle to meet these expectations to perform well in school and suffer many mental health issues.

3. During your travels through the US for this film, and in your interviews with people from your grandmother’s hometown of Augusta, Georgia, what are one or two encounters that stood out to you the most, and why?

CK: When I traveled to the deep south to screen my film, I drove with one of my producers who is a tall Black man. When we stopped at a gas station to buy some water, he pointed out to me that a white woman pulled her daughter closer to her when he entered the convenience shop. I would not have seen this if he did not bring attention to it, that a Black man is always marked as a possibility of danger and threat. It validated the fact that as an Asian person, I am able to slip into society quietly while Black people are continuously being policed.

4. The women you interviewed talked candidly about going out with white men while they lived in the segregated South. For them, dating was a way for them to have a taste of love and freedom before their marriages would be arranged with men from their own community. It’s also interesting how these dates took them to Black spaces, where they wouldn’t be at risk of being seen with their white paramours. How would you characterize the bond that developed between these women and the Black folk who, essentially, made it possible for them to have a dating life by hosting them in their spaces?

Mixed couples were not widely accepted in public places during segregation. To add to that, traditional Chinese culture prevented proper Chinese girls from dating in the first place. It is interesting that my grandmother found her Black neighbor so warm and accommodating to host her secret date. Perhaps her Black neighbor understood and empathized with these forbidden relationships.

5. There’s a delightful bit in the film where you stand around a table with your great aunts and uncle talking about a dish called ‘Pig’s Feet’, which you say originated in China. A similar dish that was invented during a time of food scarcity for the black community was chicken’s feet. What is your favorite inventive dish that came out of Chinese or African kitchens during segregation, which was also a time of economic hardship particularly for the African American community?

I grew up eating my Grandmother’s fried chicken which I think embodies this cross-cultural mix. Fried chicken is the quintessential Southern dish. But my grandmother would marinate it with soy sauce, ginger, and Chinese wine before frying it in a flour covering. It is crispy and juicy with familiar Asian flavors.

6. Within the Chinese American community today, is there greater acceptance of mixed Chinese and African families, or is dating African Americans still considered a taboo practice?

CK: Absolutely still taboo. As I mentioned earlier, my friend still is not comfortable bringing her Black boyfriend home. But there is hope. There are rare gems that celebrate mixed race relationships. Deanna Brown, James Brown’s daughter, is now a grandmother to her son and his Japanese wife. Influencer Ryan Alex Holmes continues to post warm and funny clips about life under a mixed raced household.

7. In another one of your interviews where you are discussing the film, you talk about intentionally telling your family’s story through a female lens, which also helps viewers make sense of traditional, patriarchal Chinese household dynamics and how they affected the women in these families. In this context , seemingly innocuous actions, like saving up to enroll in beauty school to become financially independent, or going on secret dates with boys, become acts of rebellion. Does it surprise you at all that these women had the courage and confidence to defy cultural norms to achieve some semblance of independence in their lives?

CK: I think it was a lot harder back then to resist control and dare to venture out in pursuit of their own dreams. Having said that, women have always had the power to survive and find ways to navigate systems of control. We just don’t see it because these stories are rarely told or recorded.

8. Some of the most beautiful and heartwarming scenes in the film were when you discuss your family’s story with your own young daughter. What are some key messages that you hope young Chinese Americans, and other young people of Asian heritage across the world, will take away from your film?

CK: I think there is a lack of intergenerational communication within Chinese American families. The immigrant story is often overtaken by the younger generation’s need to grapple with contemporary struggles. Issues of racism and cultural traditions need to be discussed more openly and candidly. I hope we can sit around the dinner table and be able to discuss such potentially uncomfortable topics.

9. How would you say this film has been received by Black audiences in the United States?

CK: I believe my film has been very well received with Black audiences, even more so than with Asian audiences. I feel they appreciate this story to confront ideas around anti-blackness and at the same time, learn about our similar yet different struggles. I remember one student at a screening at a university in Georgia who asked why Asian people hated Black people so much. It broke my heart to hear this.

10. Finally – you’ve spoken about the female lens through which viewers learn about your family’s story and race relations between the Chinese and the Black community in Georgia during Jim Crow. Would you say then that this film is also a feminist film?

CK: Thank you for this question and yes I absolutely believe it is a feminist film. I was able to approach the subject from multiple perspectives. I disrupted the binary way of examining race and racism. I highlight women’s voices to hear their stories and I focus on the intimate histories that challenge dominant narratives produced primarily by men.

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